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March 2004 + Paco Sevilla
+ Interview with Paco Sevilla and Jason Engelund The interview took place through emails. Groups of questions were aent and answers returned. The interview was puzzle pieced together for continuity. JASON ENGELUND: How did you come to flamenco? PACO
SEVILLA:
I first picked up the guitar in my mid-teens. A couple of years later,
in the late '60s, I went to Spain for a year. I lived on only $250 for
the whole year. It was an amazing time to be in Spain--everyone was so
warm and friendly. There hadn't yet been the massive invasion of foreigners
learning flamenco, so the guitar was an automatic invitation into family
settings and fiestas. Guitarist wanted me to teach them Sabicas material
(he was just becoming known there) and gypsies wanted to know if I knew
any rock music. Those were magic times. I feel a little sorry for people
going now, although I am reminded of Ulysses S. Grant's comments when
he came home from a trip to Sevilla in 1878 and complained that, since
his previous visit in 1876, the city had been ruined by tourism! When
I returned home I was a flamenco guitarist, and have continued working
to this day. I have never been a star or a great virtuoso, just a hard
working and dependable flamenco guitarist. I don't much enjoy playing,
or even listening to, solo guitar, but I have had to do a lot of it to
make a living. I have worked mostly in the USA--in major theaters in almost
every state--as well as in Canada and Mexico. For a long time I returned
to Spain every two or three years for a month or two and have worked there
also. JASON: Tell us of some of your favorite experiences while playing guitar. PACO: I can't think of particularly momentous occasion at the moment, but it is always a high to work with top Spanish artists. My greatest thrill is going out onto a stage with unfamiliar high quality dancers and singers without rehearsal. That is when you feel so alive, competent, and free--carried along on a wave of rhythm. It usually comes out well. But, if you do a second show it is often a let-down: you try to remember what you did the first time instead of living in the moment. Also, I find it impossible to do that if there is a second guitarist; it takes away the spontaneity and freedom. For me, flamenco has to be one dancer, one singer, and one guitarist. As soon as you have more than one of any of these at a time, you have choreography, not creativity. JASON: What's the best guitar you've had the pleasure of playing? PACO: I don't think we can name a "best" model of guitar. Guitar preference is so individual that even a great maker cannot build predictably for one person. Out of ten identical guitars, only one might be suitable for a particular person. One man's dream is another's nightmare. I like to say that, if a builder completes a lot of five guitars, one will be great and go to a celebrity, two will be very good and go to local hotshots, or maybe someone on the waiting list who happens to be around to pick it up, two will be okay and go to the waiting list, and one will be a dog and will go to a music store in the USA, or will be sold to the general public in the builder's shop. So I don't care who makes my guitar. As long as it has a low, soft action and all the strings have equal volume, and it has wooden pegs--for ease of changing strings and novelty for the audience--I don't care much what it looks like or how loud it is (God gave us microphones to take care of that). JASON:
Jaleo magazine was a great magazine that covered the flamenco scene with
correspondents from all over the world. There were interviews, reviews,
articles and more. Someone should scan each and every page of that mag
and archive it digitally. Tell us about the magazine and about being the
editor. How long did it run? What are some of the best articles you remember?
Can we order back issues of Jaleo magazine? PACO:
I am down to one complete set of Jaleo, so no back issues are available.
I get frequent requests for them and I have given permission many times
for others to archive them on a web site, but I don't know if it has been
done. But that isn't too big of a loss, because Jaleo was a product of
its time:1978-1990. It was inspired by an earlier (1960s) effort by Morre
and Estela Zatania in New York. The FISL newsletter was very folksy, with
hand-set type, but had excellent articles. We started very crudely with
Jaleo, cutting and pasting type-written text and taking photos out to
be turned into dots before pasting them in under headings made from press-on
letters. By the end we were setting it on an early Macintosh. Jaleo was
followed by Greg Case's Journal of Flamenco Artistry (Los Angeles) and,
finally, the superb and polished Flamenco International Magazine, out
of London. All of these efforts were doomed to failure by one glaring
fact: flamencos don't read. That was brought home to me once after I had
just finished giving a guitar performance and a fan came up to me and
said excitedly, "Have you heard that Paco de Lucia is coming? I can't
wait. He is my God!" I replied, "If you like him so much, you
might be interested in his biography that I just published." The
guy's eyes glazed over as he mumbled, "Nah, I don't read much!" It's not really a loss that Jaleo is no longer available. Much of the content is quite dated. At least half of it dealt with local parties and performances in California. Another quarter was translations of current events in Spain. That leaves one quarter of general information that was often quite good. I am trying to collect the best of those articles as part of my next book. It's very slow going, as I am a very slow typist. JASON: What are the difficulities in writing about flamenco? PACO:
I think being a participant in flamenco has helped me to write from an
inside perspective. Too much writing by non-performers just skims over
the surface. How many interviews with flamenco artists have you read where
you know no more at the end than you did before you began? So I try to
write about things that would interest me, and I try to get to technically
interesting things. JASON: Why are your books important to the understanding of flamenco culture and history? PACO:
My concept for the Paco de Lucia book was to let him tell his own story,
in his own words, as he has told it in interviews during his long career.
As far as I know Paco never collaborated directly on any biography until,
perhaps, the most recent one published in Spanish. Other biographies have
given the impression that Paco collaborated by using the same quotes I
did, but without giving the sources. Also, since Paco's story could not
be complete without including the biography of one of the most important
singers in flamenco history, Camaron de la Isla, I used the same technique
to try to capture something of this almost god-like figure. The underlying
theme of the book is the transition from the tradition-based flamenco
of the 1960s to the experimental era of the 1980s and '90s. Carmen Amaya's story speaks for itself. If Camaron was a god, then Carmen was a goddess. So many important modern flamenco dancers call Carmen their idol and their most important influence, when they know nothing about her and have never seen her dance. But almost as interesting were the many dancers who influenced Carmen, those who came before her or were her contemporaries. These were truly colorful characters, who molded Spanish dance, and whose stories have often not been told. So I tried to weave together all of these lives, often using material published for the first time. And I included as many anecdotes as possible, trying to present flamenco information that is not generally available to those who do not read Spanish or do not have access to rare historical documents. In a broader sense, the book tells the story of flamenco's theater period, the first half of the 20th century, when Spanish and flamenco dance were molded into their modern form. Ironically, much of that development took place outside of Spain--in France, South America, and the USA. And guitarists shouldn't feel left out. I included biographies, some appearing for the first time, of legendary figures like Sabicas, Ramon Montoya, Nino Ricardo, Mario Escudero, etc
Carmen Amaya, Antonio Pucherete guitar, in home of Paul Heffernan, 1962. Photo courtesy of Ana Maria Lievano-Ruiz de Galarreta, from book by Paco Sevilla. JASON: Tell us about the research process for "Queen of the Gypsies". PACO: I have always written. Twelve years of publishing Jaleo magazine gave me a lot of practice in writing and also helped me to amass a great deal of research material. An amazing amount of the material in my books came from those magazines. And I have always been very analytical. Teaching guitarists, singers, and dancers for so many years forced me to get to the essentials of technique and artistic communication. If I have any special talent, it is the ability to analyze a lot of scattered information, identify the important points, and and bring it all together to form a conclusion. Research is like detective work. I think my most important contribution to Carmen Amaya's biography was the hours and hours I spent in library basements going through microfilms of major newspapers from around the country, searching for flamenco information from 1910 to 1964. All of that history of Spanish dance in America might have remained buried if someone with my passion for the hunt didn't come along and dig it out. JASON:
Carmen Amaya is a legendary figure who is transcending time. Carmen passed
away 40 years ago and still is having an amazing impact on people. What
do you think it is about her that fascinates each generation? PACO: I think the legend of Carmen Amaya was a phenomenon created by the convergence of many factors. Her gypsy personality and lifestyle really captured the popular imagination. Her fame was created outside of Spain, where nothing like her had been seen. The outstanding feature of her dance was her intensity. That is really the impression that one came away with. It was mostly personality. One of my brothers, who has no interest in flamenco, fell in love with her from reading my book, from reading her words. Technically, she amazed people with her speed and her turns, but if you analyze her dance you see that she was pretty limited, repeating the same few moves over and over. And her footwork, although fast and powerful, was quite simple by today's standards. She is credited with being a revolutionary but, in fact, she borrowed a lot from others, including the idea of dancing in pants. But she was proof of the fact that what matters in flamenco, above all else, is what comes from inside. JASON:
Can you share with us a yet unpublished fact or legend about Carmen or
Paco? PACO:
Once I finish writing about something, it is over. Burn-out. So I haven't
given much further thought to either of them. The way I write, I focus
on the page I am writing. The previous page is forgotten, the next page
is a mystery. Writing for me is like reading: I am just as interested
as my future readers to find out what will happen on the next page. When
the book is finished, I know very little about its content. If you ask
me a question, I have to look up the answer! There is an interview with Carmen that came to light after I finished my book, in which she talks at length about her early life. But no great revelations, and lots of inconsistencies. Paco de Lucia was of greatest interest to me in the 1970s and early '80s, so I don't follow his doings much these days. JASON: Flamenco first moved out of the streets and into the cafes. Now the art is evolving through international expansion and experimental fusions. Do you see a new chapter or age on the horizon? PACO: I hate to join the list of mistaken flamenco critics who have predicted the demise of flamenco over the last century or more, but I just can't see a good future for flamenco. It is still hanging in there for now, and maybe by some miracle it will find a way to survive. After all, everyone thought it was a goner during the "opera" period of the 1930s and '40s, but then it snapped back with the severe traditional renaissance of the 1950s and '60s. JASON:
Do you think flamenco is becoming more popular internationally, and what
are your thoughts on flamenco in today's emerging global village? PACO:
I'm not so sure that flamenco is gaining in popularity around the world.
It is hard to top the passion for flamenco that existed in the 1960s and
70s, when even the local drugstores had flamenco records, and hard core
cante anthologies were available in this country. The Gypsy Kings style
flamenco and other fusions are certainly very popular. As a player of
another era, I may be a bit biased, but it seems to me that flamenco is
losing a lot. It is becoming homogenized like so many aspects of culture.
The loss of cultural identity around the world is symbolized for me by
those ubiquitous white plastic chairs that are seen in every corner of
the world, even Tibetan monasteries! With
the guitar, if you take away traditional tonalities or keys, invent new
chord progressions, create all new melodies, and disguise every rhythm
under a rumba syncopation, what's left? I think it has become even more
difficult to identify the different toques and audiences are left even
more confused than they used to be. It all sounds the same. And we don't
seem to hear really good falsetas anymore. It used to be that if someone
came up with a really good variation, everybody else copied it and made
their own version. Now it's more harmony and improvisation, and not so
many good ideas that make you want to learn them. But,
on the other hand, we can't go back. Once you have experienced the tension
of modern chord colors and the uplifting energy of counter rhythm, you
will be bored to death by the monotony of four basic chords and a predictable,
plodding rhythm. It seems to me that there is a desirable middle ground,
as exemplified by the best modern accompanists--modern playing grounded
in tradition. Some good examples we have seen here in California in recent
years include Antonio Jero and Paco Fernandez. I think we could make these
same observations about the dance and cante. The
other problem is the gradual loss of the flamenco environment, the source
of the art. It is in danger of becoming an academic art form like ballet,
without the nourishment from people who live a flamenco life. If you went
to Triana as recently as thirty years ago, you were immersed in flamenco.
It still existed on the streets, in the bars and in the family patios.
Now it is all upscale shops and condos. I know it still exists in places
and in certain families, but is less and less every day. The technical
level of the art now requires dedication to hours of study. Thirty years
ago almost anybody could play the guitar at the level of the best. It
just wasn't that hard. It was hard to get the knowledge, but the technique
was not that difficult. Now it is impossible unless you dedicate your
life to it. Mario Maya once summed up the modern situation when he said
something about how, in the old days, when you met up with dancer in the
street, you would go off to a bar to smoke, have drinks, and hopefully
enjoy some spontaneous flamenco. But now, when you encounter a dancer
in the street he is eating an apple and says he has to get to the studio
to work out!
Carmen Amaya, page 336 from book by Paco Sevilla.
PACO: "Ritmos Flamencos" was made at the request of some local dancers who were frustrated because their dance teachers weren't really explaining the rhythms, how to count them and do palmas for them. So I put together this little tape with explanations of the major styles and samples of music to practice to. It caught on and has been a big seller for years. It was primarily aimed at lower level students, but many intermediate dancers have found it helpful. Then I realized that it could also be helpful to guitarists, so I included a sheet with cejilla placement and chords for all the songs. And it could really be of use to non-performing aficionados who would like to enhance their enjoyment of flamenco. I have been asked many times to make it available on CD, and I might do it, but I put it on tape because it is so much easier to stop and rewind for study. JASON: Let me know when you put in on cd. I think a lot of us will buy it then. What's next? PACO:
I have two books in progress, whose futures are uncertain (time and money).
One is an historical novel based on the life of the great singer Antonio
Chacon. The other is a kind of "flamenco reader", a collection
of all sorts of flamencobilia. Part encyclopedia, part collection of best
articles from past publications, part "how-to-do-it" manual,
and part controversial opinions and quotes, and some things just for fun.
Let me leave you with an example of the latter. It will either make you
think, make you laugh, or make you angry: The
Five "E"s of Excellence in Flamenco Dance. Here is how I judge
a flamenco dancer. I ask myself, is this dance: 1) Entertaining: creative,
original, surprising, holding your attention? 2) Exciting: energetic,
dynamic, rhythmic, keeping you on the edge of your seat? 3) Emotional:
intense, exploring a variety of emotion, drawing you in? 4) Erotic: the
man is masculine, the woman is feminine, movements and dress are sensuous?
5 Ethnic: the costume and movements are essentially true to Spanish or
Gypsy tradition? JASON:
In your mind, what makes flamenco, flamenco? PACO:
I don't think I can sum it up in a few words, or go on and on about all
the elements that make it unique, but when I think of flamenco the words
that first come to mind are: intensity, guts, power, sensuosity--whether
speaking of dance, song, or guitar. Just my opinion. JASON:
What's the funniest flamenco joke you've ever heard? PACO: I tried to come with up with flamenco jokes for my next book, but couldn't find any. There are a lot of funny people in flamenco and comical situations and anecdotes, but not so many jokes. Jason would like to give an extra special thanks to Paco for this extensive and important interview. Send your flamenco jokes to flamencoshows@yahoo.com.
+ PACO SEVILLA'S BOOKS AND TAPES BOOKS Queen
of the Gypsies Queen
of the Gypsies, page 17 The customers paid her in dollars, francs, sterling poundsmoney she hadn't the slightest idea how to use. While she danced, El Chino kept his eye on the door, watching for the Guardia Civil [police]. He knew it could be very costly to him if he were caught making a child work at night. "When she finishes her dance, Carmen Amaya, the daughter of El Chino, raffles off, at ten centimos for each number, tickets for the drawing of two bottles of good Spanish wine that the owner of Las Siete Puertas gives to the Amayas each night. If some customer makes the mistake of giving a peseta [roughly equivalent to a dollar at that time], under the illusion that he will receive change, he is surprised to see that the little girl who dances as if in a trance has no change, or after a few mumbles words that the customer cannot understand, she says thank you for the gift of a peseta." + Paco
de Lucia Paco
de Lucía - the controversial guitarist who sparked the evolution
of flamenco from a closed, tradition-bound Andalucían folk art
into vibrant modern music that has been embraced and acclaimed around
the world. Here is his dramatic story.
Excerpts
from Paco de Lucía: A New Tradition for the Flamenco Guitar: + TAPES Ritmos
Flamencos: Flamenco Rhythms and Palmas for Dancers, Guitarists, and Aficionados Queen
of the Gypsies: The Songs and Rhythms of Carmen Amaya
+ Visit Paco Sevilla's website: sevillapress.netfirms.com |
Compassion
and Support VICTIMAS
11-M MADRID RELIEF FUND
RAFFLE
! ! ! And
of Course the ENTERTAINMENT: Grupo
Andanza Some
of the Bay Areas Best Flamenco Artists, including but not limited
to: ARTE Y COMPAS Dancers: Singers: Guitarists:
Soprano: Pianist: AND
MORE!!! If you are interesting to supporting our cause, please contact Linda Gonzalez at her place of business at 415/ 255-9279. More information click here.
+ MONTHLY
LETRA
To
the mountains of Armenia A
los montes e Armenia from Gypsy Cante, selections and translations by William Kirkland published by and available at City Lights Books. citylights.com + + + + Looking for a local Flamenco Class? Search the Artists page, Want to know all the details about workshops and updates on many local classes? Subscribe to SF Flamenco eMagazine to receive a free list of teachers and their classes as they post them. +Antonio Vargas Flamenco Workshop April 1-4, 2004 Hosted by Artistic Director, Carolina Lugo. +
+ Flamenco / Classical guitar / string instrument repair, restoration & construction. Reliable service, reasonable fees. Call or email for appointment. Stephen 510-532-7367, esteban63@sbcglobal.net. + CAMINOS FLAMENCOS WERE REVIEWED IN THE DECEMBER ISSUE OF DANCE MAGAZINE 2003, IN THEIR PERFORMANCE OF "AY, FLAMENCO" WITH DOMINGO ORTEGA IN LOS ANGELES ON AUGUST 21-23 AT THE JOHN ANSON FORD AMPHITHEATER. VISIT THE DANCE MAGAZINE WEBSITE AT WWW.DANCEMAGAZINE.COM + SF Flamenco On-line Magazine SF Flamenco's free, on-line magazine, published each month, sends information directly to your email. The eMagazine features headlines on all the website information including articles on artists, flamenco network listings, and event calendars for the San Francisco Bay Area. The eMag also sends you class and workshop listings, not found on the website. If you would like to receive the free SF Flamenco eMag simply send an email, from the email account you wish to receive the subscription, to flamencoshows@yahoo.com with "subscribe" in the subject.
+ + + Click
on the show for calendar with full details. Check show information with
venue. + Feb 28 and 29, 2004 Ballet Flamenco Eva Yerbabuena, Zellerbach Hall, Berkeley + Feb 28 YAELISA & CAMINOS FLAMENCOS Feb. 28 - Tapa the World, 2115 J Street, Sacramento, CA +
March 11 SOLO SPANISH GUITAR with Mark Taylor ZANGRIA Petaluma + March 13 ZANGRIA SUPPER CLUB presents FLAMENCO! LIVE! with LA FIBI FLAMENCO Dancers: Melissa Cruz, Juan Moyoli Singer: Kathy Mejia Guitarist: Mark Taylor
+
March 21 ARTE Y COMPAS Monica Baile, Roberto Zamora - Cante/Baile,
Jason McGuire Guitar, Defne Enc Baile Timo's Restaurant
San Francisco +
March
27 ZANGRIA SUPPER CLUB presents FLAMENCO! LIVE! with LA FIBI FLAMENCO
Dancers: Carole Lugo Querensa del Mar Singer: Kathy Mejia Guitarist: David
Guttierez +
March 28th, 2004 at the Union Española building, we will hold a
reception with the purpose of raising funds for the victims of the terrorist
acts on March 11 in Madrid. 2:00pm,
2850 Alemany Boulevard, San Francisco, Ca 94112, Cost: $10 per person |